So, many thanks to the thousands of people who have now completed my Estimation Quiz. Special thanks to Michael Williams, who posted a link to del.icio.us, Dave Weeden, Chris Bertram of Crooked Timber, Nick Barlow, Chris Brooke, and many others for linking to the site, including a user of Metafilter -- which link drove most of the traffic. (I was expecting to have to wait months for enough people to complete the thing for the results to be interesting, as with my Political Survey. Instead it took two days. That should probably tell you as much as you need to know about my ability at estimating things.)
So, when I posted the link to the quiz, I said that I had an ulterior motive for building the thing. Michael Williams speculated that my purpose was to,
do something terrifying with the data.
I'm not sure whether the below will actually terrify you, but I'll try my best. (There's quite a lot to say, and some will have to follow tomorrow.)
For those who didn't do the quiz, I'll quote from the description:
How far is it from Edinburgh to Cardiff? When did the English Civil War break out? How long does light from the sun take to reach the Earth? You probably have some idea of the answers to questions like these -- or you could make a guess. But do you know when your guesses are right, and when they're wildly off?
This is a general knowledge quiz which tests you on how well you can answer questions like these -- and whether you know how good your guesses are.
For each question, you will give an answer in the form,
a ± ba should be your best guess at the answer. b is your idea of roughly how far off your guess might be. If you're absolutely sure of the answer, you can tick ``this is the exact answer''; but if you do, and you are wrong, your score will suffer.
You get points for how good your guess of a is, and whether b was an honest estimate of how wrong you were.
The quiz asks for estimates of thirty-one quantities. Most are straight general knowledge questions, for instance,
- [How many] bones [are there] in the adult human body?
- [How many] MPs [were] elected to the House of Commons at the 2001 General Election?
- [What fraction] of the population of the United States [are] below the poverty line?
Others require more specialised knowledge, such as,
- [How many] stars [are there] in the galaxy?
- [What is] the distance from the Earth to the Moon?
- [How long does] light from the Sun [take] to reach the Earth?
And some ask for things which few people are likely to know, but which are very easy to estimate, for instance:
- [How many] plastic carrier (shopping) bags [are] used each year in Australia?
- [How many] petrol stations [were there] in the UK at the end of 2001?
(I hadn't realised that the term `carrier bag' isn't understood to mean a disposable plastic shopping bag outside the UK. I adjusted the wording of the question when I discovered people asking, ``what's a carrier bag?'' In fact the quiz as a whole was rather Anglocentric, basically because I expected it to be answered by this web log's half-dozen readers -- mostly in Britain -- and their friends. The results below incorporate data from about 3,000 responses.)
Note that some of the quantities -- like the three astronomical quantities above -- vary or aren't actually known exactly. More on this later.
So, the first question you might ask is, ``are people actually any good at estimating things?'' The answer is that... it depends.
For some quantities -- especially ones which some respondents actually do know exactly -- the crowd's wisdom isn't bad. For instance, asked to estimate the latitude of London (51.5°N, but ±0.1° or so because London's quite big), the results look like this:
What I've done in this and the plots below is to combine the results from every answer to the question. Every answer x±dx is treated as specifying a normal distribution having mean a and standard deviation b; the combined distribution is the sum of all those distributions, divided by the number of responses. Answers which are exact (i.e., with b = 0) appear as single, thin spikes on this plot, like those at 0°, 80°, 90° and 100°. The red curve tells you, roughly, `how probable is this value for the latitude, according to the combined opinion of the respondents?' The blue curve is the corresponding cumulative distribution; it tells you `what fraction of the respondents think that the latitude is smaller than this value?'
So, the peak of the distribution -- the mode, the most frequent value cited by the respondents -- the middle (median) value, and the mean, all lie close to the correct answer; and the distribution is quite strongly peaked -- for comparison, the black curve shows the single normal distribution having the same mean and variance as the red curve. This obviously isn't an efficient way to find out the latitude of London -- to design the quiz, I looked it up in Google just like anyone else would (and just like some of the respondents no doubt did, despite strictures against cheating in the rubric) -- but at least the technique works.
Note also that about 3% of people thought that the latitude of London was 0° -- suggesting that they're confusing latitude and longitude -- and that about 8% of them thought that the latitude was more than 90°N. Well, they're in good company. Even some trained economists don't understand what latitude is.
Similarly, despite attempts by the gutter press to incite mass hysteria about immigration and asylum, some respondents had a decent idea of how much money ``scrounging'' asylum seekers receive in benefit: £37.77 per week:
but many others did not: more than 80% overestimate the amount; about 50% believing that asylum seekers receive £100 per week or more, with 16% believing that they receive more than £300 per week, an error of more than a factor of ten. (Note, of course, that these results do not come from anything which resembles a representative sample, especially not a representative sample of the UK population. Nevertheless I was shocked that about 3% think asylum seekers receive more than £1,000 per week, though clearly some of these -- like the person who answered `2345' or `323232' were taking the piss.)
One thing you might ponder at this point is whether asking people to estimate their uncertainties actually makes any difference. Here's a version of the above plot, with an added purple curve -- the empirical cumulative distribution of the answers, ignoring uncertainties -- and a brown curve, giving a smoothed (`kernel density') approximation to the distribution of answers:
While the two distributions are fairly similar, ignoring the uncertainty information clearly decreases the accuracy of the estimate. (Note also how the brown distribution is peaked at round numbers; this isn't true of the distribution incorporating uncertainty information, because most people who pick £50 or £100 or whatever obviously know that they're guessing, and put in sensible error bounds.)
The crowds turns out to be pretty decent at guessing dates. For instance, asked to identify the start of the English Civil War (1642), they came up with,
Note that, as Sellar and Yeatman pointed out a long time ago, for many people 1066 is the only memorable date in English history, and they're prepared to state it without uncertainty as the date of any significant event (many people gave 1066 as the date of the 1707 Act of Union, too). I don't know whether the same is true of 1861 for Americans, or whether that was a misunderstanding about precisely which Civil War was in question here. Asked to identify the date of the first space flight by a woman (1963), respondents suffered the same problem:
Here other popular choices -- memorable years in space history, so to speak -- included 1961, the year of the first human spaceflight, and 1986, the year of the `Challenger' space shuttle accident which killed seven astronauts. Given this I was slightly surprised that 1969 (the year of the first moon landing) wasn't a more popular choice.
(The results for the question on the height of the Eiffel Tower had a peak at 1,789 feet. This suggests the following splendid thought process: `the thing was built by the French to celebrate something French; that can only be the French Revolution; that happened in 1789; so I must be expected to know that the thing was built to be 1,789 feet high'. It's a nice idea -- full marks for imagination -- but sadly (a) the technology of the time wasn't up to building a 1,789-foot-high tower, and (b) it would have had to be a round number in meters, you parochial bastards! Many others said that the tower was 300 feet high, suggesting a units confusion which may have been partly my fault. On another question, asked to give the time taken for light from the Sun to reach the Earth, this `nice round number' effect led many people to state with absolute certainty that the time was some integer number of minutes.)
Moving on, it's hard to describe the `crowd's' response to other questions as anything like `wise'. `Haphazard' is nearer the mark. People know the distance from the earth to the moon surprisingly well, but haven't a clue about the length of the Nile and very little idea of the distance from Edinburgh to Cardiff. They have no idea at all about the GDP of the UK:
the most popular answer being about a tenth of the true value. Asked to estimate the number of words in Pride and Prejudice -- I was going to ask about `a typical novel', but of course there's no such thing, so I had to pick one everyone would have heard of -- left the crowd totally stumped:
with about two-thirds underestimating the length of the novel and many believing that it's only ten thousand words long. The shape of these we-haven't-a-clue distributions seems to be pretty characteristic; in another example, asked to estimate the maximum take-off weight of a 747-400 airliner, we get the following:
Now, I suspect that some of the people who estimated ten tonnes (the weight of enough fuel for an hour's flight, in the ~230-tonne 'plane) thought the question was asking for the weight of the passengers -- this is one of several cases, like the plastic bag one -- where I didn't word the questions as clearly as I should have; but even the people who got the order of magnitude about right don't seem to have a very good idea of what they're grasping for. I've plotted the curve for Benford's law (which gives the frequency of leading digits of numbers drawn from a scale-invariant distribution) for 100, 200, 300, ... tonnes but I'm not sure this really applies here.
Straight estimation questions -- many of the above can be answered by trying to plug in plausible numbers, but they are quantities which you could reasonably know -- show the same pattern. Asked to estimate the number of petrol stations in the UK (about 12,000) gave this:
-- the mode is 1,000 (a quantity which would leave each station to be shared by 58,000 people). An even easier question -- how many plastic shopping bags are used every year in Australia (~20 million Australians buying something like one item in a carrier bag every day gives about 7 billion bags per year) -- left respondents completely adrift:
-- the mean is out by about a factor of ten here.
So, that concludes today's foray through slightly eccentric statistics. I'll leave the last few bits and a summary for tomorrow (hopefully), including some comments on the scoring of the quiz, which many people (quite rightly) thought was rather silly.











Comments
Posted by Nick, Saturday, 28 August 2004 22:34 (link):
The English Civil War data doesn't seem to be displaying - just getting the red x and no image.
One thing of interest on the 'first female astronaut' statistics is that there's a peak in the curve around 1983-84 (the curve's actually higher than the Challenger peak in 1986, though more people went for 1986 exactly) which I would presume is people who believe that the American astronaut Sally Ride (who went up in the Shuttle in 1983) was the first female astronaut, rather than Tereshkova in 1963.
Also, do you have the data on people's overall scores? I'm wondering how my 59% compares to other people's results...
Posted by Chris Lightfoot, Saturday, 28 August 2004 23:17 (link):
The ECW picture is now fixed -- sorry about that. I'll try to discuss the overall scores tomorrow. 59% is high, I think. My scoring scheme was... well, let's say `not very well designed'.
Posted by Andrew Gray, Sunday, 29 August 2004 16:46 (link):
I would guess the Challenger peak isn't as much due to people remembering Challenger as remembering McAuliffe, who tended to feature heavily in media coverage, and since that coverage has come up again in the past twenty months... it's an open question as to whether she's better known as "the famous female astronaut" than Ride is, now I think about it.
Posted by Phil, Friday, 10 September 2004 20:31 (link):
As I recall from my childhood, the name Sally Ride was always followed by "The first 'American' Female in Space", I should have known better. I was a bit confused when I tried to put in fractions of a number but it wouldn't accept it. I think the problem was that I didn't start with a leading 0. I would have liked an option for "No idea" as well. Some of the questions I felt comfortable at least estimating, but others I had no way to even start an estimate.
Posted by prabhas, Friday, 10 September 2004 22:18 (link):
i would most certainly have liked a no idea option. i guess that would change the nature of your results a little bit.
Posted by Sven Geier, Monday, 13 September 2004 23:58 (link):
I think an option "I have no clue at all" would have made a whole lot of difference in many of the questions that were quite culture-biased. What was the birth year of [some name I've never heard]? Who knows. What am I supposed to enter here? I picked 1000+/-1000AD as that would cover the likely time span, but in your graphs this is going to look mighty funny.
Another point were units in amny places. I would have preferred to say that I have no idea at all about the british GDP than being forced to give some number of "billion pounds" when I'm not even sure whether you're referring to 10^9 or 10^12 with the word "billion". The start weight of the 747 had two choices for the unit: "tons" and "tonnes". Huh? Is either of them metric? Could that be marked somehow?
Funnily enough I simply made the margin of error homungously large wherever I had no clue, and usually the correct answer was within that margin of error (like that above-mentioned birth year). Yet I still got zero points, even though I correctly identified the accuracy with which I was able to make those estimates....
Posted by Cory, Friday, 10 September 2004 18:59 (link):
I put 1986, which was stupid on the surface because (a) one of the female astronauts on the flight (Sally Ride) wasn't making her first trip out, and (b) the Challenger didn't make it into space, so it didn't qualify on any basic theory :-)
Posted by Alan Canon, Friday, 10 September 2004 20:37 (link):
Sally Ride wasn't aboard Challenger on STS-51L (the doomed flight.) In fact, Dr. Ride served on the Rogers Comission appointed by President Reagan to investigate the disaster. You may be thinking of astronaut Judith Resnick, who perished in the accident.
Posted by AC, Friday, 10 September 2004 20:40 (link):
Sally Ride wasn't on the Challenger. She's alive and well.
Posted by Matthew, Saturday, 11 September 2004 00:15 (link):
Sally Ride was the first female astronaut in space. Tereshkova was a cosmonaut.
Posted by Chris Lightfoot, Saturday, 11 September 2004 01:32 (link):
I've now checked this -- I was fooled for a bit by the comments. The question asks for `the year in which a woman first flew in space' -- no mention of astronauts or cosmonauts.
Posted by Matt, Saturday, 28 August 2004 23:44 (link):
Chris,
This is all really fascinating.
One point though -- the Australian carrier-bag question was not that easy. According to this website, when trying to answer the same question, Australian carrier-bag use is about 2.5 times UK use.
http://www.intellectualloafing.com/activitiesfolder/estimationqsfolder/australiasannualcarrierbaguse.htm
Why so high? I have no idea...
Matt
ps This still doesn't explain why I was 10 times out.
Posted by Chris Lightfoot, Sunday, 29 August 2004 01:04 (link):
You seem to have found the same website where I found that question....
True, I was being a bit glib about how easy the carrier-bags question is. Still, 85% of people guessed less -- most, substantially less -- than the ~2.5 billion per year which you get by multiplying the UK rate of carrier bag usage by the Australian population. About 50% guessed that Australians use one or fewer carrier bag per month (corresponding to a total usage of 240 million bags per year).
I assume that what's going on here is that people are picking numbers out of thin air. I don't understand the shape of the distributions, though.
Posted by Andy Holt, Friday, 10 September 2004 17:41 (link):
I got this seriously wrong because I overestimated the population of Oz by a significant amount
Posted by natasha, Friday, 10 September 2004 19:10 (link):
I would imagine that shopping bag use varies widely per person in different countries. In the United States, for instance, they are free everywhere... whereas in other countries they tend to recycle bags because there is often a charge. I cannot vouch for how it works in Aus, though. That may be one reason for the vast difference in numbers.
Posted by Jules, Friday, 10 September 2004 23:16 (link):
I don't think that accounts for it; the value is higher per capita than the UK value, and they're normally free in the UK.
Perhaps they tend to be smaller bags? Or maybe they're weaker, so people more frequently put an additional bag around anything with (e.g.) bottles in it?
I, too, overestimated the population by a substantial amount.
Posted by Andrew Mitchell, Saturday, 11 September 2004 00:31 (link):
I'm from Oz...
I recall a recent news article that Australia's plastic bag usage had dropped x% over the last year (15% or something I think).
Apparently most of the drop was in supermarkets... but department stores and small shops still use a lot, and as I recall this area (the small shops) was where the problem really lies. I came back grom my local garden centre with about 30 bags the other day... protecting the car from the plants and dynamic lifter bags. They didn't have any boxes (had run out).
Supermarkets used to double-bag when putting 2 2litre soft drink bottles in... now it is just one. Aldi (fairly small here) charges for plastic bags. Bunnings (large hardware chain) has started charging for bags and encourages boxes. I don't know about overseas, but in Oz everyone just puts their boxes out in the recycling (instead of taking back to shop) and only a few shops offer their boxes that they receive goods in back to the customers to use, and none use their own boxes that they have made (except online supermarkets)
Posted by Robert Janssen, Saturday, 11 September 2004 00:39 (link):
Part of it is you give the number in millions, so people think you are feeding them information that the answer is in millions not billions and guess accordingly. I think there have been some research studies done to that extent. Ask the stars question with the default units starting in the thousands and I'll bet you'll see the mean drop to somewhere in the high hundred thousand/low millions range.
Posted by John, Monday, 30 August 2004 08:33 (link):
I've thought about the scoring problem and I think there are really two issues here. (1) How good are your mean estimates (2) How accurate are your estimates of your own variances
Suppose I'm asked a large number of equally difficult questions, and, for simplicity that my errors are normally distributed with mean zero. Then, we can get an objective measure of my average (root-mean-square) error. The smaller this is the better I do on (1). Now for (2), if I know that the errors are equally difficult, I should pick the same standard deviation (66 per cent error band). The closer this is to my true error, the better I know myself.
Things get more difficult when the questions vary in difficulty. But if we know how they vary in difficulty, we can get rescale them all to have common standard deviation, and proceed as above. And we have the "wisdom of crowds" to help us estimate the difficult.
My short cut recommendation is to have two scores.
(1) is the ratio of (rescaled) average error to some population norm - lower is better (2) is the proportion of your estimated mean answers falling within one estimated standard deviation - closer to 66 per cent is better
Given the stated purpose of the quiz, (2) is arguably the variable of most interest, and it doesn't need any info on the population.
Posted by wolfangel, Monday, 30 August 2004 09:10 (link):
I don't suppose you have these stats based on country (or continent) of origin? I was off by an order of magnitude on counties, for instance, extrapolating based on how many counties Quebec has (50-60) and deciding that population was a more reasonable scaling factor than area. (I was also off on other things due to misreading the questions, or not noticing that decimals were okay until about halfway through the quiz and being too lazy to fix them. Oops. I also believe at least once I left off a zero, which might explain some of your Jane Austen results.)
But I would guess, for instance, that Americans would tend to guess the number of gas stations higher than it actually is.
Posted by Chris Lightfoot, Monday, 30 August 2004 09:43 (link):
In principle I could derive (a good guess at) country of origin from IP address. However, when I wrote the privacy statement for the thing I said I wouldn't use the IP addresses, because I thought people might be freaked by the data gathering aspect. Now, it turns out that only two people bothered to read the privacy policy, so I could have put whatever I liked in there, but it's too late now....
I've changed the policy for new entrants so that I can use this information, but we'll have to see how many people answer the thing in the next few days.
(Could I also draw your attention to the second bullet point in my comments policy.)
Posted by toresica, Saturday, 11 September 2004 01:44 (link):
"I don't suppose you have these stats based on country (or continent) of origin?"
It would also be interesting to see if there are peaks at, for instance, about 300 for the number of MP's. (Which is closish to the number of MP's in the _Canadian_ parliament.
Posted by Jenny, Tuesday, 31 August 2004 17:46 (link):
Looking at your results, maybe my poor 35 percent wasn't that bad after all. I wonder how much the units you offer affects the answers given. For example if the "number of carrier bags used in Australia" question had units in billions I imagine there would be fewer answers an order of magnitude smaller that the true value.
This quiz reminds me of how my sister, who is at medical school, is examined for some of her exams. The exams are multiple choice where not only do the candidates have to choose what they believe to be the correct answer but then they must give a ranking for each question on how confident they are of their answer.
Jenny
Posted by dave ansell, Monday, 6 September 2004 21:20 (link):
I noticed that there were lots of times I wanted to add logarithmic error bars - especicially with the really large numbers - eg I was estimating to within 1 or two orders of magnitude either way, which is really hard to enter in your system
Posted by Matt McIrvin, Friday, 10 September 2004 02:12 (link):
On many of the questions I felt as if plus-or-minus was not really the right way to indicate uncertainty: if what I've got is an order-of-magnitude estimate, then what I really want is plus-or-minus on a *logarithmic* scale. For the carrier-bag question, I figured out using a fairly reasonable thought process that the number was probably somewhere in the billions, but had no idea what the mantissa would be. In retrospect I suppose something like "5.5 +- 4.5 billion" would get at the range I was more or less sure of, but from that one might assume something like a Gaussian distribution with, say, 95% confidence level in there, which would imply a significant tail going all the way down to zero, which is ridiculous.
On questions like the carrier-bag one, getting within a factor of 10 of the right answer is doing pretty well.
There are others that I found a bit questionable, such as the "functional illiteracy" one: I know from looking into wild claims about a huge fraction of Americans being functionally illiterate that the numbers are all over the map based on variant definitions of "functionally illiterate".
Posted by Matt McIrvin, Friday, 10 September 2004 02:13 (link):
...and now I see that Dave Ansell said exactly the same thing about logarithmic scales.
Posted by Michael Pacey, Friday, 10 September 2004 19:10 (link):
There are others that I found a bit questionable, such as the "functional illiteracy" one
Yeah, well I read that as "functional literacy". I suppose that makes me functionally illiterate. I would have been within a few percent if I'd read it properly.
Posted by Andrew, Saturday, 11 September 2004 21:51 (link):
I had a problem with making estimates on a linear scale as well. On a couple of questions, I gave a confidence interval that was larger than the score itself (which apparently gets 0 you points). I wasn't entirely sure how the scoring was supposed to work. Should I give the most probable answer with a larger error range? Or should I choose the range first and then give an answer in the middle in order to minimize the confidence interval. In most cases, I chose the later method, which seems to get a poor score. For example, on the Latitude question, I knew that London was at least 2 degrees North of the Canada-US border. I would sooner guess 51 +3 rather than 53 +/- 2, but I was confused by the scoring system.
There is also the issue that the instructions don't tell if you can enter fractional answers. (The app rejected ".5", but I found out afterward that I could have used "0.5"). I got burned by this twice. I said that 8 minutes for the light from the sun to reach the Earth was an exact answer (which it is to 0 decimal places). And I had to estimate that the population of the Earth was 6.5 billion +/- 1 when I knew it was within 0.5.
Andrew
Posted by Matt McIrvin, Friday, 10 September 2004 02:17 (link):
...About Americans saying 1861 for the English Civil War, I'd strongly favor the "saw English Civil War, read US Civil War" hypothesis. If there were one date that Americans found so significant that they'd name it for every historical event, it would probably be either 1776 or 1492. Or 1066.
Posted by Ed H., Friday, 10 September 2004 22:54 (link):
Well, as an American, I must say that I didn't even know England had their own 'Civil War' that was called such. I guessed 1650 ± 100. The two big dates most Americans know are 1492 and 1776. To a lesser extent are 1792 (the year our Constitution was ratified, which makes it the 'REAL' birthdate of our country, in its present form,) and 1812 (England's attempt to take us back, known to us as, surprise, 'The War of 1812'. This happens to be the war during which our national anthem was written.) I would venture that most Americans do *NOT* know when our own Civil War actually started, which is indeed 1861. This is partly based on my pessimism at the American public, because of surveys that show that most Americans are ignorant of history. (Such as one that asked when our war of independence started, with the possible answers of 1776, 1861, and 1941. The majority said 1941.)
Posted by Rob Reid, Sunday, 12 September 2004 02:04 (link):
That's not how it's taught in Canada. Here the war of 1812 is seen as an attempt by the U.S. to expand, driven by Pres. James Madison's concept of "Manifest Destiny", i.e. that God wanted the U.S. to take over everything. In fact one of the slogans was "54-40 or " (bust, die, something like that...I wouldn't know the slogan if it weren't for the band 54-40. 54-40 are the latitudes Madison wanted the U.S. to immediately expand to, encompassing most of Canada's population. Obviously we interpret 1812 as the war in which we (along the British Army) beat the Americans (held them at the border), so I was surprised (naively, I know) to see it interpreted, in much the same way, as an American victory.
Posted by Yonah Lemonik, Monday, 13 September 2004 22:19 (link):
This is getting wildly off the topic, but... Firstly it is probably entirely incorrect to call the war of 1812 "the Second Revolutionary War". Recall that this is nearly an entire generation after the Revolution, the British did not show particular interest in reconquest of the US (why would they want a bunch of unruly colonies who had proven their desire to revolt anyway?). It is true that there were some in the US that wanted to conquer Canada ("54-40 or fight" related to a different incident later in history however, I believe over the Oregon territory, the term manifest destiny appears later in history as well), additionally there were questions of Freedom of the Seas involving American neutrality in the Napoleanic Wars. However these would have been of interest to the Northern sections of the US and Madison was, if you recall, a southerner. The Issues that motivated the South was the the desire to expand westward through territory controlled by Indians supported by the British. This was the primary issue, indeed 7 of the 10 largest battles were fought between the US and Natives (I think) The Canadian invasion failed, of course, and the Freedom of the Seas issue was mooted by the end of the Napoleanic Wars. The US was largely successful in its campaigns against the Native Americans, Britain agreed to cease interference in the US's westward expansion, and the US proceeded to crush the Native tribes piecemeal over the next 75 years. In its primary issue from a US perspective then the War was probably successful, but in the issue of direct concern to Canadians they prevailed.
Posted by Andy Holt, Friday, 10 September 2004 17:56 (link):
A little surprised by some of the scores: For example on the asylum seekers question I was fairly sure it was less than £50 so put 25 +/- 25 which nicely includes the correct answer and yet scored 0.
I also made a few typos - I thought I'd typed 0.5 minutes as the uncertainty and it went in as 5 reducing a probable score of 8, maybe 10, to 4; for Tony Benn, whose age I'd guessed pretty accurately as 79 +/- 3, for some reason I put age of birth as 1979 :-( ... I wonder how many non-UK responders wondered "who the hell is TB" (or confused him with Tony Blair (some difference!)
Posted by Chris Lightfoot, Friday, 10 September 2004 17:58 (link):
Yeah -- see the second bit I wrote about this. Basically the scoring algorithm is bollocks, and one unhappy feature is that any estimate a±a scores zero. Sorry about that.
Posted by chris, Friday, 10 September 2004 17:57 (link):
One thing about the female astronaut is that Tereshkova is a cosmonaut, not an astronaut. Although that is simply semantics or a technicality, you should've said either first female in space or first female cosmonaut. I'd bet your estimations would've been much better had the question itself been more exact. I'm an aerospace engineer and aspiring astronaut, and had you asked that question to me, I would've put it in the 1983 range; had you asked "first female in space," I would've put it in the mid 60's range. Even today at NASA, the russian crew members are called cosmonauts and all others are astronauts. It's a sign of respect.
Posted by george, Friday, 10 September 2004 18:28 (link):
I'm in the same boat as Chris. Also an aerospace engineer, I guessed 1983 as well. Semantics are often easily blown off but I agree than 'cosmonaut' would definitely have changed my answer.
Posted by Chris Lightfoot, Friday, 10 September 2004 19:28 (link):
An interesting point, and one I hadn't thought of. It would be interesting to see whether the Brits answered that question more accurately than the Americans.
Posted by Chris Lightfoot, Saturday, 11 September 2004 01:35 (link):
Nope, you're both wrong. I've now checked; the question asks for `the year in which a woman first flew in space'; it doesn't mention astronauts or cosmonauts.
Posted by Karl, Friday, 10 September 2004 18:14 (link):
One thing that happened to me: as I got nearer the end, I decided my wild guesses were "exactly" correct, even knowing they weren't. I suppose that's just being flippant, but as I answered more and more, that's what happened. Does this change your stats?
Posted by Chris Lightfoot, Friday, 10 September 2004 18:15 (link):
The order of questions is randomised for each respondent, which should make that effect cancel out for each question. I haven't tried measuring whether the quality of guesses declines the later the question appears in the quiz.
Posted by Daryl, Friday, 10 September 2004 21:02 (link):
Actually, I found that I started widening my +/- range as the quiz went on. Don't know why. The first 10 or so questions I made the estimation range way too narrow. Must have either thought I was smarter than actually am, or that I'd get 0 points for a range too broad. Being from the US, I was ashamed to have missed the number of states (put 51, got zero points) but then guessed pretty close to Tony Benn's birthdate (when I didn't know who he was). Churchill, Thatcher for US folk and Nixon or Reagan for UK individuals (with a narrow range for points) might have been interesting. To start the quiz, you maybe could have just asked the user's country of origin. The quiz was interesting and informative none the less. The questions you chose were very good.
Posted by Mike, Friday, 10 September 2004 19:36 (link):
I disagree with your statement that there are no trick questions on the test. As an answer to the year of birth of Jesus Christ, you have the answer as 5+-2 BC. Putting aside the fact that some people believe he was never born at all, the calendar we are using to provide the answer is based on the idea that the year he was born was 1 AD, yet I got 0 points for putting that as the exact answer. Whatever the prevailing theories are on this, there is no strong evidence to pin it down. Which makes me curious, on questions where the correct answer is given as a range, how many points would someone get for putting an answer in that range exactly (i.e., population of the UK, 58 million exactly)?
I'm also curious why I got any points at all (2) for giving an answer (250 +- 30) that was outside the range for the number of members in the United Nations.
Posted by Ed H., Friday, 10 September 2004 23:03 (link):
I don't know. I've seen 'evidence' pointing to it being anywhere from 5 B.C. to 30 A.D. (Based on the fact that the calendar itself has become inaccurate.) If you are going by pure 'year', it should be 1 A.D. (I wonder if the author was thinking year 0? There was no year 0, since at the time, there was no understanding of the CONCEPT of zero. So the years went from 1 B.C. to 1 A.D., with no zero in between.) Of course, I'm also of the belief that the birth taking place on December 25th may be incorrect. So that could push the birth forward another 'year'. Then again, even if it is considered to be December, would you count those final 6 days of the year enough to have the birth in the 1 A.D. year, or would 1 A.D. start at the beginning of the following year?
Ah, the joy. (I wonder if anyone answered 3762, which was the Hebrew calendar reckoning of what is called 1 A.D.)
Posted by Patrick, Friday, 10 September 2004 23:46 (link):
You are correct that there was no year 0, but your reasoning is wrong. The ad/bc system was not developed until the gregorian calendar in the middle ages. The year would have been known as whatever of whatever ceasar's reign. (yes, I am too lazy to actually look those up)
Posted by Mike, Wednesday, 15 September 2004 16:05 (link):
Evidence of the actual date of Jesus' birth aside (I know of no concrete historical evidence that the event even took place, which makes pinning down a precise year a bit difficult), the problems with what the quiz gives as the "true answer" remain. Firstly, the "true answer" of 7 to 3 B.C. is certainly arguable, and answers outside that range probably have at least as much or more validity. Secondly, the quiz asks for the answer in units of AD or BC. Since the units of AD and BC are defined based on the birth of Jesus being in 1 AD, 1 AD really should be the correct answer. If you asked how long a foot is and gave the answer in units of barleycorns, the correct answer should be three exactly, regardless of whether you have evidence of 3 grains of barley which, combined, are only 9 inches in length. Perhaps the question should ask how many solar years ago Jesus' birth was.
Posted by Chuck, Saturday, 11 September 2004 03:52 (link):
I'd also have to agree about their being trick questions. At the very least, the number of States in the US is wrong - at least according to the Commomwealth of Virginia, anyway. It's kind of a long story, but most pedantic residents of the state of Virginia will point out it's not a state at all. Which is why I entered 49....
Posted by Jere, Friday, 10 September 2004 19:45 (link):
Interesting stuff! I bet you are getting quite a few hits from all around the world right not (as your page has been linked to from several high-profile pages).
As a Finn I got bitten by the anglocentrism - also known as 'knows little about history in general'. England had a civil war? I though you had several? By far the most amazing correct answer was the presentage of functionally illiterate people in the UK. Owie! Well, I guess that goes with the horrendas spelling of your language ;-). Not that Finnish is easier to learn, heavens no, but at least it is very systematic - if you can speak it you can also read, spell correctly & write. Spelling competitions are something that simply do not make any sense in Finnish.
Finally, I (as an astronomer) consider the 'stars in a galaxy' question a poor one; it is a number that is tought in school, but the official value changes regularly and shows no signs of settling. I put 100 billion (number in textbooks 10 years ago) +- 50 billion, and got a very low ranking. It is also a number that is almost impossible to estimate, if you don't know it. But perhaps you ment it to be a reference 'guess' measurement.
OK, enough complaining. I saw your disclaimer and realise that you didn't quite expect to get this much attention, and never ment the test to be 'real science'. But it's working very well indeed.
Jere
Posted by Margarita, Friday, 10 September 2004 20:03 (link):
I'm Argentinian, and I was clueless at lots of UK questions. I had no idea where Cardiff is, for example, nor did I know which "Magna Carta" was the question referring to (In Argentina we have our own Magna Carta). And the same thing for many other questions.
Maybe it would be interesting to have an "International Estimate Quiz", where the questions wouldn't be so UK-centered. Like, what is the latitude of Casablanca, or when did Italy became a whole state, or what's the total surface of Java, or how many Dutch speakers are there in the world. And the quiz could start by stating the country of origin, so that the answers can be sorted out accordingly.
Also, did stating the number in meters instead of feet affect the scoring of the answer? Or was it converted to feet before computing the score?
Posted by Chris Lightfoot, Friday, 10 September 2004 20:08 (link):
The Anglocentrism is a problem, for sure -- my guess about the audience was mistaken. Still, you still might be able to make a reasonable estimate of (say) the distance from Edinburgh to Cardiff -- for instance, you might have some idea of the relative size of the UK and of Argentina, know how far apart reasonably far-flung cities in Argentina are, and estimate based on that.
Yes, the answers are converted to consistent units before scoring.
Posted by Brian Hurt, Friday, 10 September 2004 20:18 (link):
One of the things this quiz points up to me is the amount of cultural context taken for granted.
For example, I have no clue where Cardiff is in England. I know England is about 300-350 miles north-south (+/- 100 miles). I know vaguely where Ediburgh is. I guessed that Cardiff is in the far south. This is rather like asking someone from England to estimate the distance from Minneapolis to Des Moines. What? Don't you know where Des Moines is? And you only have a vague idea where Minneapolis is? What sort of uncultured lout are you? The fact that I drive that trip a couple of times a year doesn't give me *that* much of an advantage, does it?
The gold standard medal for this is the estimate how much an asylum seeker in England gets per week. I could probably estimate fairly accurately what the poverty line for England is. But how much relative to that standard is your average asylum seeker given? Even to buy a house and a nice car? Enough to survive on? Nothing at all? This is a social question, and the answer isn't one I can guess- all those answers could be true. And they give answers ranging from nothing to hundreds of pounds a week.
Posted by Nick Barnes, Friday, 10 September 2004 23:11 (link):
I'll give you a gentle hint: neither Cardiff nor Edinburgh is in England at all.
Minneapolis to Des Moines? Thought processes go: Minneapolis, well that's in Minnesota, which is *there* on my mental map. Des Moines is in Iowa, which is *there*. So about one day's drive, i.e. between 400 and 700 miles. How'd I do?
If you can tell us (without looking) the two countries which have Cardiff and Edinburgh as capitals, we might stop smirking.
Posted by Kevin O'Malley, Saturday, 11 September 2004 00:36 (link):
Keep in mind that we really don't know where Scottland and Wales are over here...
Posted by Paul Hammond, Saturday, 11 September 2004 00:11 (link):
"Billion" has meant 10^9 in Britain for quite some time, e.g. the definition was officially adopted by the UK Treasury in 1974.
Posted by Paul Hammond, Saturday, 11 September 2004 00:13 (link):
OK, that was supposed to be a reply to Jack Dominey's post. Don't know how that happened.
Posted by John Cowan, Saturday, 11 September 2004 04:30 (link):
Cardiff is not in England, but in Wales. It is, however, in Britain and in the United Kingdom.
--well-informed Yank
Posted by Jack Dominey, Friday, 10 September 2004 20:26 (link):
For a couple of questions, including the British GDP, I wasn't sure if the unit being offered was in British billions (10 to the 12th power) or American billions (10 to the 9th power).
Plus, as one of the folks who answered the Sun-to-Earth question as exactly eight minutes, I assumed that integer precision was all that was expected.
Fascinating exercise, and somewhat humbling.
Posted by Craig Buchek, Friday, 10 September 2004 20:35 (link):
A few comments.
First of all, I have a problem with your error estimates. For estimates where the expected error is a fraction of the estimated result, your calculations make sense. However, where the estimates are more in the range of orders of magnitude, your calculations start to make less sense. Such estimates would more appropriately use a logarithmic scale.
Also, your scoring of such instances was poorly chosen. For instance, I got a couple answers right to within a few percentage points, but estimated my error at around 100%. I got 0 points for those answers. That seems wrong -- I got the answer right, even though I wasn't very sure of it. And my estimate of error showed I thought I was lucky to be in the right order of magnitutde. Another example is my guess of 1700 for the Union Act. Pretty good guess for an American, which is why I estimated an error of +/- 250. Giving me 2 points for a very good but unsure guess doesn't seem quite right.
Some of your questions depend on several compounded estimates. For example, I had little idea how many people lived in England. (I guessed 30 million, off by 50% or 100%, depending which direction.) To answer the question about petrol stations, I had to take that (poor) estimate and multiply it by another poor estimate -- how many people does each station serve? (Which also depends on the percentage of folks who drive, which as a mid-western American, I almost assuredly over-estimated.) Estimates to such questions will tend to be much more distributed, again requiring logarithmic interpretation.
Another point -- dates in history are a poor choice for estimates. They're relative to an arbitrarily-chosen zero. So if I'm off by 10 years in the 1st century, my percentage error looks a lot worse than if I'm off by 50 years in the 1900s.
I short, different estimates have different types of expected errors. Trying to shoe-horn them all into +/- a percentage, or even into an order of magnitude, isn't necessarily going to be a productive analysis.
Posted by Chris Lightfoot, Wednesday, 15 September 2004 18:26 (link):
Well, all the errors in the dates are scored relative to distance from the present day, so you're expected to be able to guess better for more recent than more distant events.
Posted by Shaun Evans, Friday, 10 September 2004 20:39 (link):
Great quiz! Very interesting.
I was hoping to have an analysis comparing correctness with confidence, though. For example, I'm rather proud of my guess of 1700 for the Act of Union, given that I'm an American with minimal knowledge of English history, so I plugged in +/- 300 years to indicate that I was operating outside my area of knowledge. You turned this into a single, low, point score.
Basically, I was expecting to see a results page that showed what I know, how confident I was, and what I was wrong about, and how confident I was. Maybe something for the next version...
Shaun
Posted by Daniel Einspanjer, Friday, 10 September 2004 20:48 (link):
As like other "bloody Americans", I took astronaut to be exclusive of cosmonaut. :/
More importantly though, I'd like to suggest that a possible reason behind some of the integer rounding problems that you commented on (the 8 minutes for light question) might be because of a non-specific error message. My first attempt to answer that question was 8.5+-.2 and the .2 was rejected. At that point, I took it to mean that you didn't accept decimals at all and answered the rest of the questions as such. Upon seeing the answers, I figured out that it was just a problem of my not having included the leading zero. I wonder if many other people might have had the same problem.
Fantastic quiz, I enjoyed it greatly.. almost as much as I do tpop3d. I remember thinking, "Now where have I seen that name before..." then I saw the ex-parrot domain and remembered. :)
Daniel
Posted by Jules Stoop, Friday, 10 September 2004 21:55 (link):
Exactly the same problem here. Rounded it all to integers for that reason. Besides that: metrics weren't default. On some questions I forgot to toggle, being Dutch...
Posted by Bruce Wilder, Friday, 10 September 2004 22:10 (link):
I, too, missed the idea that 0.5 is the necessary format
Posted by joe, Saturday, 11 September 2004 04:57 (link):
i answered that it takes light 8.3+-.2 minutes to arrive at earth, because i have heard 8.3, and know that it is a bit above 8 at least. this was then rejected, apparently from not having a leading zero. i then said that it was 8 exactly, assuming it had to be an integer. almost nobody ever types a leading 0, so i'm sure that this is where a lot of error came from. i don't think that i got any points for that question.
Posted by John Craig, Friday, 10 September 2004 22:05 (link):
Interesting quiz and an intreguing premise, but you seem to be surprised that more people know the distance between the Sun and Earth than the length of the Nile... and you really shouldn't be.
I'd guess that your test was taken by people all over the world, and a great many of the questions were specific enough to a single nation (especially the UK questions) that foreigners simply don't have any reason to be even slightly familiar with the quantity being estimated. Most Americans, for example, have little reason to know Edinburgh and Cardiff even exist, let alone how far apart they are. Similarly, the GDP of the UK or even the value of the pound sterling isn't of much concern to the average Japanese net surfer. These questions will illicit utterly wild guesses from most people around the world, rather than true estimates. This wouldn't be so very bad if not for the fact that people are still penalized very harshly even when they admit they have little idea of an answer and enter a large variation.
Conversely, everyone is aware of the Sun, and where you live has no bearing on Earth's distance from it. It should come as no surprise that a lot of people did well on that one... And a shortage of decimal values can be chalked up to people missing the note about being able to enter fractions, and thus being unaware that it was permitted.
The question regarding the number of words in a novel is particularly interesting, though. I suspect the answers are the result of people being accustomed to counting by page and having a total lack of experience in actually counting words in a piece of prose. The abundance of answers for 10,000 or 20,000 words comes as no surprise, because these are very popular limits set for essays, short stories and various writing contests. As a result, many people remember the phrase "20,000 words or less", and it's the first thing to pop into their minds as a plausible-sounding number. A lot of guesses for 40,000 or 50,000 words are probably an extention of this: The test-taker remembers 20,000, but also remembers that this is for essays and short stories. Novels are longer, but not really realizing how much longer, the test-taker approximately doubles the value to a nice round number.
Posted by Roman, Friday, 10 September 2004 22:36 (link):
Well, I did the quiz and I am not sure what my answers are as compared to the rest of the world, where can I find that out?
Posted by Chris, Friday, 10 September 2004 22:28 (link):
Interesting quiz - but I thought (as I'm unable to follow directions....) the purpose was to test meta-knowledge (the accuracy of your knowledge of your knowledge of absolute facts) not absolute in and of itself knowledge?
For example - I'm pretty confident that Edinburgh is in the UK, but I have no idea where Cardiff is. (Yes I live in the US!). I assumed it was in fact on Earth (and not a location on Mars, etc) and therefore estimated 7000+-7000 miles. A correct answer as all points on the Earth are within that distance! Of course I got 0 points because my absolute knowledge was nill.....
The question is, how can you score a meta-knowledge test? One could easily receive 100% by making all answers 0 +- infinity. Yet I'm frustrated by what I belive is a low score, as my meta-knowledge was actually quite good....
Posted by Dan, Friday, 10 September 2004 22:39 (link):
These graphs are fascinating for the purposes of the study. Now for entertainment value, please do a similar graph of the scores. I would like to know how well I did compared to the rest of the crowd. Did I do well or did I go splat? I'm just not sure. My score was lower than I expected, but maybe everybody's was...
Posted by AC, Friday, 10 September 2004 22:46 (link):
I'd be interested to see another similar quiz but where other facts are presented alongside the questions. For example:
Estimate how many plastic shopping bags are used in Australia in a year (52 weeks) given that there are 20 million Australians?
Estimate how many words in The Hobbit given that Pride and Prejudice has 122093 words?
This would help people to create their own "estimation formula" and reduce the amount of almost random guesses by those too lazy or completely unfamilar with that area of knowledge. I think that given "a ballpark" to work within peoples estimates would be much more accurate. Estimates tend to be based on comparisons to known values or based on known related information.
Posted by Nick, Friday, 10 September 2004 22:52 (link):
Questions like, "What is the distance between the earth and the sun?" or "How many counties were there in England in 2000?" have answers. But some of the questions, like "What fraction of the US population lives in poverty?" or "What fraction of the UK population is functionally illiterate?" do not have objective answers. It depends on how you have chosen to define "poverty" or "functionally illiterate".
Posted by Geoff, Friday, 10 September 2004 23:18 (link):
You might want to give some base stats at the start of the quiz, such as the population of the UK and Australia. Being a stupid american, i have a pretty good idea of the US population, but only a very hazy idea about the UK and Australia. I was guessing about 100 million for UK and 50 million for Australia. If i'd known that the UK was closer to 50 million, i'd probably have guessed about 50,000 gas stations instead of 100,000. Still off, but not quite so atrociously off. Of course there may also be other factors at work. I wouldn't be suprised to find that the US has at least four times as many gas stations per capita as the UK :)
Posted by Andrew L., Saturday, 11 September 2004 00:01 (link):
You need to clarify the number of states in the US question. Several of the "states" are technically classified as a "commonwealth" instead.
Posted by joe, Saturday, 11 September 2004 05:02 (link):
perhaps it could read, "how many stars are there on the american (USA) flag, where each star represents a state?" i imagine this would get around the commonwealth issue.
Posted by Geoff King, Saturday, 11 September 2004 06:41 (link):
Actually no, to quote Wikipedia:: Four of the states bear the formal title of Commonwealth: Kentucky, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, and Virginia. In these cases, this is merely a name and has no legal impact.
However, the United States has non-state areas called commonwealths (Puerto Rico and the Northern Marianas) which do have a legal status different from the states.
Posted by Obviously not Chris, Saturday, 11 September 2004 00:26 (link):
Chris,
You might want to tell people _beforehand_ how the evaluation is done. Your grading policy was not what I expected. Eg I put 51 states exactly and the answer was 50, with a score of zero. What is the logic in that? You summarize the results by some number, but without beforehand announcing the grading policy. This tactic would fail miserably at an educational institution! You might also want to consider an option of eliminating UK questions for non-brits.
Yours,
Posted by Chris Lightfoot, Saturday, 11 September 2004 01:28 (link):
I don't think I've ever been to an educational institution where it was obligatory to tell students the grading of the questions ahead of hand! I guess things really are different in the US....
Posted by cscoggin, Monday, 13 September 2004 19:19 (link):
You answered EXACTLY 51. The answer is wrong. The score is 0. How confusing is that? You gave yourself zero wiggle room (the basis of this test) and instead 'bet' the whole score on your answer.
Posted by Stephen Webb, Saturday, 11 September 2004 00:53 (link):
I enjoyed the quiz -- interesting questions and results... The one plot that I wanted to see the most isn't anywhere to be found...
The distribution of scores for the test-takers...Maybe the scoring system isn't the best, but I still want to know how 43% stacks up... :)
-Steve
Posted by Chris Lightfoot, Saturday, 11 September 2004 01:45 (link):
See the second part of this discussion.
Posted by Mayson Lancaster, Wednesday, 15 September 2004 10:05 (link):
After looking at the distribution, I realize that my 49% was actually fairly respectable for a Yank. (I have just been mortified, after looking at my page to realize that my 49% was actually 47%. Ego does make liars of us all.
Ta,
Mayson
Posted by Chris Lightfoot, Wednesday, 15 September 2004 10:07 (link):
Not necessarily -- I've corrected a couple of errors, which might have changed your score slightly. See the site news page.
Posted by Tom S., Saturday, 11 September 2004 06:18 (link):
Quite an interesting experiment. Thanks!
It does seem to me, however, that the quiz rather misses the point on some questions, particularly those dealing with physical quantities.
Sticking to astronomy (the only field in which I actually know anything), the scoring for both the distance to the moon and the number of stars in the galaxy question seems problematic. By offering default units, the meaningful part of the questions are lost. What's more, forcing symmetric linear error bars makes it impossible to really characterize how well one knows many of these values.
Anyone who knows that there are a few times 10^11 stars in the galaxy is spot on. Whether there is a 1, 2, or 4 out front is both trivial as psychology and rather hard to answer in detail. If you were to ask a room full of professional astronomers, you'd get answers anywhere from 1 to 5*10^11, depending on the time period during which they happened to take a course on galactic astro and their preferred stellar mass distribution. In order to really asses whether or not people know anything about the galaxy, you really ought to leave off the default billions unit (which is a pretty big hint!). What's more, if you're going to claim the numerical scores mean anything, then anyone who answers within an order of magnitude ought to receive a high score. I'd readily agree that the statistical analysis of all the answers are far more interesting than scoring an individual exam. . .but, since you've provided scores, there's no harm in criticizing them.
The same can be said for the distance to the moon. Whether it is 400'000 km or 100'000 km doesn't matter. What's interesting is whether people have any idea what sort of magnitude the number actually is. By handing them the "thousand kilometer" unit, you take a possible range that might easily span 10 orders of magnitude and pin it down to a factor of perhaps a thousand.
The same is true of most of the physical units questions. To pick a specific example of a questionable score, I guessed the Boing 747 maximum weight at 200 +- 200 tons. My score: a zero, despite being off by only a factor of two and landing the real answer (barely) within my error bars. I was rather pleased to have arrived at such a close answer, given that I know so little about about the plane.
A second, minor complaint is that the quiz seems rather UK centric. Even among those of us non-brits who catch the Guardian or BBC radio several times a week, I'd be surprised if anyone could guess Tony Benn's age to within more than a couple of decades. His early career isn't exactly world wide common knowledge.
take care, Tom
Posted by Tom, Saturday, 11 September 2004 06:21 (link):
Oops - just saw the author's comment above about the scoring algorithm choking on a +- a answers.
Better forget about that part of my criticism, I guess.
Sorry!
Posted by Matt, Sunday, 4 September 2005 22:57 (link):
And the distance to the moon changes! So do the number of stars in the Milky Way, and the amount of time it takes light to go from the sun to the earth.
It annoyed me that I couldn't say "exactly" on questions I had the best knowledge of, since there is no exact answer :)
And I'm a bit troubled by the british literacy question. I'm not sure what you mean exactly by a "functional illiterate" but the literacy rate in the UK is right around 99%. Maybe there's some other standard for literacy that is being implied, but if there was, I totally missed it.
Regarding Tony Benn, I have no idea who that is.
Posted by Mitchell N Charity, Saturday, 11 September 2004 06:26 (link):
A quick late-night post...
Estimation of rough but quantitative answers to unexpected questions about the physical world is often referred to as Fermi Problems or Questions.
And yes, people are horrible at it. Even science and engineering graduates estimating simple situations with fundamental units have difficulty getting within a few orders of magnitude. The lack of quantitative feel reflected in phd orals has been repeatedly bemoaned over the last half century in several fields. Surprisingly then, it is a remarkably powerful and easy to use technique which can be taught even to young children. Go figure.
Posted by European, Saturday, 11 September 2004 08:11 (link):
You could mention in the beginning that the test IS culturally related. I, as a Finn, don't know where Cardiff is, have never heard about Tony Benn, or that Jane Austen's novel. My result was 20%, btw.
Posted by Jaro, Monday, 13 September 2004 22:12 (link):
Yep, I would also like to comment on the national bias in the survey. I obtained 39 per cent, but would have gotten more if a) I were a Briton and b) the grading formula was given beforehand. For Tony Benn, for example, I got zero points for guessing he was born in 1700 plus minus 300 years (my guess was solely based on the fact that he has an English name, never having heard of him). Shouldn't you be given a point or two for correctly estimating the error? As for counties, there is no way of knowing how large a unit it is in Britain, as the naming conventions vary from country to country (I had no idea UK was divided in counties, much less that there was a change in 1974). Would you guess that Finland has 400 municipalities and over 100 "cities"? Didn't think so. And foreigners don't necessarily know your house of commons has 650 instead of 200 members, as it looks quite small on the TV. Also, mixing up Cardiff and Glasgow made me guess the distance about five times too small...
Most of the non-UK questions are good (like the plastic bags in Australia one), since they really depend on your ability to make an educated guess. I agree, however, on that, like the plastic bag question, the astronomy questions should too have the option to pick a unit (thousand, million, billion etc.). They are clearly biased by giving the ballpark beforehand.
A great quiz, but please, please, make it more culturally independent.
Posted by Steve Dispensa, Wednesday, 15 September 2004 19:33 (link):
The metric system wasn't adopted in France until 1795, so the Tower might well have been 1789 feet -- I think that was the unit of measure in use at the time. Anyone know for sure?
Posted by Chris Lightfoot, Wednesday, 15 September 2004 19:34 (link):
It was built in 1889.
Posted by Milo, Thursday, 23 September 2004 19:13 (link):
Good fun - and perhaps a good exercise for my students. Since they never estimate, they believe everything their calculator tells them.
I agree with many of the comments already made, particularly about log errors and giving a scoring structure in advance, however one issue that doesn't seem to have been mentioned is a sort of game theory aspect.
If for example you know that Harold died in 1066 but not how long he reigned, you deliberately select an earlier year than you actually think is correct - basically because you know that you will be judged on a symmetric distribution even though your estimate is not. Similarly if you know the Year that Charles I was executed (thank you Monty Python) but not how long the war was. The same problem appears with bounded questions. For example, the % of illiterate people can be no less than 0% - hence you might overestimate deliberately. Or the female astronaut must be before 2004.
I ceratinly used this strategy - I wonder if there is evidence for wider application of this behaviour?
Posted by Brian D, Monday, 27 September 2004 15:11 (link):
That was a very interesting quiz, although I did not do as well as I thought I deserved. I would very much like to see another future attempt at such a quiz, except addressing some of the minor issues. I agree with what pretty much everyone has already pointed out (anglocentrism, units, technicalities.) I thought I would just also point out that perhaps an alternative means of entry could be the min/max. I.e. "I think /foo/ is greater than /x/ and less than /y/". For some questions it's a lot more intuitive to answer that way, rather than needing to pick a middle and +- value.
It would also be nice to have known up front that "exact must be exact." I answered simply "6 billion, exactly" for population, and received zero points for that answer, even though had I known I must answer correctly to three significant figures to receive any credit I would have answered differently. Technically, to one significant digit it is 6 billion, exactly.
Posted by Mark Cambridge, Friday, 1 October 2004 13:41 (link):
Hi
perhaps I missed it but is there a distribution of scores. I'm sure many would be interested in seeing how they did.
Posted by lara, Saturday, 23 April 2005 18:08 (link):
I have a question for Chris Lightfoot reguarding the average score for this quiz. What is it?
Posted by Simon Caldow, Friday, 6 May 2005 17:05 (link):
Chris, in spite of your may detractors, I really enjoyed doing this. It was a lot of FUN!! And since I sort of think that is where I thought you were coming from in the first place, much honour is due, even more so that you gave up you own time to give a great deal of pleaure to a number of people. As to the UK-centricity, again based on your original premise for setting up the thing, if it only served to get a few people looking up who Tony Benn is, and giving others a better appreciation of the structure of English counties, well, they are better informed people for it. Love to see something else like it again soon.
BTW, I did way worse in your Election Night Special. Guess British politics really does bore me stupid!
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